Gladys Berejiklian Icac hearing live updates: former premier denies delaying sacking official so he could ‘fix’ Maguire’s funding concerns | Australia news

OK, we’re back on here. And straight back into the $30m grant to the conservatorium of music.

Gladys Berejiklian is asked why she sat on the cabinet subcommittee considering the grant but didn’t disclose her relationship to Daryl Maguire.

She says there would be no benefit personally to her and that the relationship wasn’t of a sufficient status to warrant disclosure:

It had nothing to do with what was happening in my private life.

Berejiklian says the thought of disclosing it never crossed her mind:

We didn’t share anything in common except for that close personal relationship … the threshold for me was would I introduce him to my parents, would I introduce him to my sisters?

Commissioner Ruth McColl notes that it sounds as though Berejiklian gave a lot of thought to the matter. Why then did it not cross her mind to disclose the relationship?

Berejiklian:

In my view, [the grant decision] had nothing to do with my personal life because it was on the merits of providing something positive to the community.

We’re not far off resuming. The lunch break typically ends about 2pm.

Just a quick reminder of the major revelations from this morning.

• Gladys Berejiklian promised to “fix” a grievance Daryl Maguire had about the lack of money for projects he wanted in the 2018 budget. She boasted that she’d secured him $170m in five minutes for a Wagga Wagga hospital and said the then treasurer Dominic Perrottet would just do whatever she wants.
• Berejiklian denied she ever suspected Maguire of corrupt conduct, despite him boasting that he was going to resolve a $1.5m debt through a land deal near western Sydney airport.
• She said she’d not disclosed her relationship with Maguire because the relationship wasn’t significant enough. A text message showed she described him as part of her “family”. She said really he had been more like part of her “love circle”, but not family in the way that her mother and sisters were.
• She has denied giving special treatment to Maguire in relation to two key grants to the Australian Clay Target Association and the Riverina Conservatorium of Music. Maguire had advocated for both. Berejiklian had some involvement in overseeing the grants. She had not disclosed her relationship to Maguire to her colleagues.
• Berejiklian told Maguire she would delay sacking an official so the official could fix Maguire’s concerns about the conservatorium funding.

Gladys Berejiklian is asked whether Daryl Maguire’s advocacy for the conservatorium ever influenced her decision to “hire and fire an official”.

She says it did not.

But she notes that she was “incensed” that community groups like the conservatorium were being told to apply for money through the unsolicited proposals process, because it wasted their time and fed the impression the government didn’t care about the regions.

The official in question can’t be named.

Berejiklian is played a phone call.

In it, Berejiklian says: “I can’t stand that guy. His head will be gone.”

She appears to indicate that she will delay sacking the official to meet Maguire’s request to “fix” the conservatorium funding:

Tell him to fix it, and then after he fixes it, I’m sacking him.

Asked about the recording, Berejiklian rejects the suggestion that she delayed sacking the official to help Maguire:

No, that person is still in the public service today.

Berejiklian said that, during the 2017 meeting, she offered a degree of government support to the conservatorium for its proposal:

She said the unsolicited proposals process was meant for major projects, like toll roads, not for minor issues like the conservatorium’s desire for relocation and a new performance space.

She says Maguire raised the funding with her “on a number of occasions”, as has the current member for Wagga Wagga.

Did Maguire complain about “roadblocks” to the project?

Berejiklian:

She’s shown an email in which Maguire complained about the lack of progress on the conservatorium funding.

Robertson asks: “Did you take this email from Maguire as a request to intervene?”

No. Again vague recollection would have been that I would have taken it as his frustration with the process.

Berejiklian is played a recording of a phone call.

In the call, Maguire says “this funding is causing some bloody issues”. He is talking about the conservatorium funding.

She says:

At least we’ve engaged them, we’re in conversation. We’re on the right path.

Berejiklian is asked whether she gave Maguire favourable treatment. She denies doing so.

Gladys Berejiklian is now asked about another grant. This is the second of the grants at the centre of this investigation. It awarded $30m to the Riverina Conservatorium of Music.

The former premier is asked about a handwritten note to Daryl Maguire, who had been lobbying for the funding, in which she said she was “aware” of the “merits of the proposal”.

She cannot recall what merits they were in particular.

Berejiklian met with the conservatorium on 10 February 2017. Berejiklian says of the meeting:

I certainly got a deeper understanding of what they were seeking … but certainly I do recall having correspondence and having this meeting with them.

The conservatorium wanted to relocate because it could no longer use its old premises, and it wanted a new performance space.

Berejiklian said she had been made aware during the meeting that the funding was being sought through the so-called “unsolicited proposals” process, which would not have been successful:

I was very concerned at the advice they’d been given and I was quite upset and incensed that they’d been asked to follow a particular course of action to get support when I knew that would have set them up for failure.

Berejiklian is shown an email from the deputy secretary of Regional NSW to one of her advisers about the grant. The email says:

Just wanted to keep you in the loop, given the premier’s interest …

She says she doesn’t recall signalling any interest to her department or office. She says it’s possible that she did.

I certainly didn’t remember raising it frequently.

Did Maguire keep you up to date with the clay target project? Berejiklian cannot remember:

He may very well have been engaging with my office. I just don’t remember.

Gladys Berejiklian explains that, having lost the Orange byelection to the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party, she may have wanted to fund something relating to shooting to help the Coalition win back regional voters in the area.

Her political desire to win back voters in the bush is the only context she can recall in relation to the grant.

Was her support for the grant influenced by the fact that Daryl Maguire was advancing it?

It could have been part of the consideration, but the absolute consideration for me … was the consequence of the Orange byelection. I don’t remember meeting with him.

Berejiklian is asked why she didn’t simply tell the proponents to do more work on the proposal to ensure it was a net benefit to the state:

From the evidence that I understand was provided last week, those discussions may very well have occurred in the meeting.

She goes on to say nothing would be built if the government only ever followed the Treasury’s advice.

She said she may been persuaded that “we needed to appease the rural and regional communities” after the Orange byelection loss:

We would have gauged whether there was community support. I think the government was very sensitive, or frightened or scared … of parts of regional NSW turning away from the government.

Robertson asks why she supported the grant proposal.

She can’t recall but speculates that it was because it would “raise our stocks” in the regions after the government lost the Orange byelection:

The only thing I recall when I heard about this grant through this process was its proximity to the Orange byelection.

Berejiklian is showed a briefing note from one of her staff about the grant in November 2016. At the time, Maguire was a parliamentary secretary, so he couldn’t put forward a submission to the cabinet committee.

The briefing note suggests a meeting took place between Maguire and Berejiklian about it.

Berejiklian says she has no recollection of a meeting. She says it is possible a meeting took place.

Berejiklian does agree that she indicated her support for the submission. She says that was not irregular.

She can’t remember whether the submission was supported by the Treasury.

She’s shown a document clearly showing that it wasn’t because a “net benefit for the state has not been demonstrated”:

I think all treasurers would note that this was generally Treasury’s default position.

We’re back.

First, Scott Robertson makes clear there is no evidence of wrongdoing concerning Brad Hazzard or Dominic Perrottet, who were mentioned earlier.

The questions now turn to the $5.5m grant to the Australian Clay Target Association, which Daryl Maguire was advocating for in 2016.

Gladys Berejiklian, the then-treasurer, was chair of a powerful cabinet subcommittee that considered the grant.

She’s asked whether she directed that the grant should be placed on to the agenda of the committee. She says she can’t recall.

Berejiklian says a minister may have suggested it be added to the agenda months earlier, and she simply acted on that direction.

She also says she has no recollection of Maguire raising the grant with her before the committee’s consideration of it:

It’s a possibility, but it’s an equal possibility that a minister raised it.

We’ve just adjourned for a brief break.

Well, what an hour that was. Here’s what we learned:

• Gladys Berejiklian offered to “fix” a grievance her then secret lover had about not getting $170m for Wagga hospital in his electorate in the 2018 budget. In a secretly recorded conversation, Berejiklian offered to call Dominic Perrottet. She told Daryl Maguire that Perrottet “does what I ask him to”. Within two hours, the budget had changed to include the money. Maguire still complained that there wasn’t money for Tumut hospital and a school. Berejiklian said: “I can’t fix everything else.”
• Berejiklian denied repeatedly that she’d treated Maguire favourably. She said she treated him like any other MP.
• She also repeatedly denied that she suspected Maguire was engaged in corrupt conduct, despite him telling her of a $1.5m debt that he was going to resolve by his involvement in a land deal near the western Sydney airport.
• Berejiklian said she didn’t declare the relationship with Maguire because there was no personal benefit for her. She was quizzed on why she declared that her two cousins work in the public service, but not that Maguire, a sitting MP, was her lover. She said she didn’t feel confident in the relationship with Maguire or his commitment to it.
• Asked how she responded to her former colleagues who say she should have declared the Maguire relationship, Berejiklian said that “they weren’t in it. So they wouldn’t have known my state of mind”.

Another intercept is played. This has also been played previously.

In the recording, Gladys Berejiklian relays a message that former minister Niall Blair is going to take up matters on Daryl Maguire’s behalf about a potential business failure and regional jobs during a trade mission in China.

The business had nothing to do with Wagga Wagga, Maguire’s electorate.

In the call, Berejiklian says:

It’s none of my business, I’m just letting you know.

Maguire:

They’re petrified that I’m going to interfere. And I will. This is people’s life’s work, of course I’m going to interfere.

In a separate recording, Maguire talks of going to China. He says Blair doesn’t want him to go to China:

I said I’ll go where I please, but if you manage to get some movement and get a result … I don’t want to go, but I’m not going to let this company fold and go under. They don’t get it. It’s all about the minister.

Maguire says there’s been “some movement” on the issue. Berejiklian responds:

That’s good, do you still need to go if it get’s fixed?

Maguire:

No, that’s what I’m pushing for.

Scott Robertson asks Berejiklian whether she suspected Maguire was engaged in corrupt conduct? She says she did not.

Robertson asks her why she didn’t tell Maguire to butt out and not risk an important trade mission.

I didn’t think to do that.

Robertson is pressing the ex-premier here. He asks how it could not have crossed her mind that it was “strange, unusual or unexpected” that a sitting member of parliament was saying he would make $1.5m out of a property deal.

Berejiklian says she would not have given it a second thought:

It wouldn’t have crossed my mind that it would have materialised. I would have assumed it was pie-in-the-sky and I wouldn’t have given it any more thought.